Open Source Ecology - aquaculture

Link spam on relevant topics:

11:43 PM

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/3D_Ocean_Farming

3D Ocean Farming

11:43 PM

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Mussel

Mussel

11:43 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biorock

Biorock

Biorock, also known as Seacrete or Seament, is a trademark name used by Biorock, Inc. to refer to the substance formed by electro-accumulation of minerals dissolved in seawater. Wolf Hilbertz developed the process and patented it in 1979. The building process, popularly called...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aew9nps8mc8

Dezeen

Modular artificial reef system by Alex Goad

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12:31 AM

this design doesn't require cranes etc unlike larger blocks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW9O2PM3tvc

Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission

Creating Marine Habitat The Artificial Reef part 2

1:14 AM

The above video had some great info, and that amazing 90's documentary aesthetic

https://myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/artificial-reefs/

Artificial Reefs

3:22 AM

page on florida, uncertain on colledge/university project status in this heiarchy

3:22 AM

or for non-seabed tethered stuff such as 3D Aquaculture

3:22 AM

A roadtrip to pensacola is a boring drive, but would be worth it!

3:23 AM

(UNF where i went for a bit is one of THE places for marine bio, so i bet there could be work there)

Know any techniques or tools for baking seaweed with any efficiency? I've fried/baked bull kelp leaves which are one of the thickest but still it was an insane amount of work. Literally gallons of leaves took hours to wash, boil, and finally bake between silicone sheets. All that work yielded only a tiny little sandwich bag of Korean style seaweed snacks

. Not even as much as you would get from one of the little packages at Costco (which work out to only $0.80) each.

2:26 AM

I don't know how they cook them at scale but wow... seaweed is apparently almost entirely water.

2:28 AM

A friend of mine was able to raise bull kelp in front of their house and made an awesome little kelp forest. Fish moved in and loved it. Would be fun idea to do. I haven't yet tried making pickled kelp slices from the whips which I hear is really tasty also and hopefully less work. (edited)

2:31 AM

Wild bull kelp forests are apparently in decline

@Cmjstealth has reached level 1. GG!

We call this the geodome. A pair of local divers made it from PVC pipes in order to create an artificial reef at one of our popular dive sites. Even after 20 years i still am unable to see much if any degradation of the plastic. This makes me want to explore using large extruded beams of recycled plastic to construct other interesting vertical underwater habitats. https://imgur.com/a/0sFMyoG (edited)

3:53 AM

Pipe is now completely covered by invertebrates

@Cmjstealth has reached level 2. GG!

International waters make for some interesting propositions for floating civilizations as well

small 1 meter or so diameter ones may be perfect!

6:37 AM

supposedly small bunches of ~5 or so domes seperated by 10-100m makes a healthier reef

6:38 AM

they act as "one reef" but also allow for other species in-between

6:38 AM

the "domes" are usually concrete, but some sort of geodesic frame would be easier to do with just divers!

6:39 AM

ie bring piles of plates/legos/beams etc

6:39 AM

gradually hand to dive team to assemble

6:39 AM

move to next spot, assemble there etc

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I was looking at market rates for recycled pet plastic and looks like for $2500 you can buy close to 50,000 lbs of plastic already ground up and ready to go. I feel like we could build an underwater city with that much material!

7:04 AM

Was looking at pet specifically because it shouldn't float. Downside is it is harder to work with

7:06 AM

I've heard that since China banned the import of US plastic waste you can't hardly give the stuff away. Clearly that must be true. Shipping would cost more than the material

Recycling is definetly a huge material source, i'm going to move over to #general and spam some links + ideas

More of a mangrove swamp/breakwater, but i found this:

2:16 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uGcQhTuXec

Sheng-Hung Lee

TetraPOT | Sheng-Hung Lee

Wow that has real promise, maybe injection molded put of recycled plastic on a ship?

probably not, it wasn't shown in that video, but those are typically used for breakwaters in a sort of "3D Jigsaw Puzzle"

11:57 PM

https://youtu.be/UBK7_nEn8Ac

Eko Atlantic

Great Wall Of Lagos

11:58 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrapod_(structure)

Tetrapod (structure)

Tetrapods are a type of structure in coastal engineering used to prevent erosion caused by weather and longshore drift, primarily to enforce coastal structures such as seawalls and breakwaters. Tetrapods are made of concrete, and use a tetrahedral shape to dissipate the force ...

We have them scattered along the ocean barrier in Table Bay harbour. Locally called "dolosse" because they look like animal bones used in a traditional children's game.

probably not, it wasn't shown in that video, but those are typically used for breakwaters in a sort of "3D Jigsaw Puzzle"

@Eric Lotze yeah I know they are big, I mean having a big tetrapod injection molding machine on a ship, running nets of plastic through to get finished plastic tetrapods that have a hole in the middle for mangroves

Smth like that might b a better use for an extrusion machine (look at the preciousplastic brick for reference), injection u need a lot of force all at once which would b an ask @ that scale, extrusion you can do a bit more gradually

It'd be dope to make the plastic pieces and then let the plastic eating, rock producing bacteria scihouse is working on loose on it to turn the coatal defenses up a notch

Sounds worrying to release in the ocean tho - the fish w plastics in their bellies probly won't appreciate it

️

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10:27 AM

Maybe a solidifying pool first then decontamination

true

Plastic at the ocean surface exposed to wave action + uv rays is probably not a great idea. Seems a recipe for more microplastic which is already decimating countless species of birds, fish, whales, and mollusks.

I definetly think concrete and/or carbon is the way to go

Synthetic limestone is super interesting: http://www.blueplanet-ltd.com/#technology

admin

Home

Ah the electrical method?

10:26 PM

no they haver adapted mineral carbonization ccs to reefs it seems? (edited)

Not sure the details but different from biorock if that's what you mean. They produce synthetic limestone directly from captured CO2 (edited)

10:27 PM

Looks like they extract the calcium feedstock from old concrete maybe?

i need to see what their "feedstock" is

10:27 PM

definetly intresting

"Blue Planet’s process starts with collecting CO2 and dissolving it in a solution. In the process, the company creates carbonate that reacts with calcium from waste materials or rock to create calcium carbonate. Calcium carbonate happens to be the main ingredient in limestone. But rather than superheating it to create cement (which would release all that CO2 right back into the atmosphere), Constantz and his team turn the resulting stone into pebbles that serve as aggregate." from https://grist.org/sponsored/the-breakthrough-that-could-actually-reverse-climate-change/

btroyergrist

The breakthrough that could actually reverse climate change

It’s a part of a growing movement to restore the climate to a healthy and habitable state, and it’s right under your feet.

That can be obtained via seashells too, so a sort of "bio-leaching" approach VIA the farm/reef may allow for production of more material

As shells are already calcium carbonate breaking them down for Ca^2 would release the same amount of carbonate as you are trying to sequester.

10:43 PM

On the flip side, I know organisms are already struggling to produce calcium carbonate (shells) due to acidification. If it is the carbonate availability that is the issue i wonder if that means there are ample free calcium ions that could be captured somehow?

I think local carbon capture via a pile of seaweed/kelp etc reduces acidity decently ( c i t a t i o n n e e d e d (ill dig)

Yeah - it absolutely does - just not sure in what form. Algae blooms in the ocean create sudden and dramatic PH changes in the water... problematically so

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-68841-2

Fragmented kelp forest canopies retain their ability to alter local...

10:49 PM

https://deeply.thenewhumanitarian.org/oceans/articles/2018/04/20/fighting-ocean-acidification-with-underwater-forests

Fighting Ocean Acidification With Underwater Forests

As the ocean's pH drops, scientists are studying whether kelp and seagrass can create refuges that could help marine life survive acidifying waters.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Permaculture

Marine Permaculture

Marine Permaculture is a form of mariculture that reflects the principles of permaculture by recreating seaweed forest habitat and other ecosystems in nearshore and offshore ocean environments. Doing so enables a sustainable long-term harvest of seaweeds and seafood, while regenerating life in the ocean. Marine Permaculture comprises a platform...

added it to the page, that's probably the more accurate name

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8ViaskDSeI

TEDx Talks

Vertical ocean farming - the least deadliest catch | Bren Smith | T...

10:47 PM

reposting that ted talk

10:49 PM

Those type of things are important to take into account

10:49 PM

I found a LCA for large scale kelp farming

10:49 PM

i need to find one for this more "ecosystem-ey" one

@Deleted User has reached level 9. GG!

Original message was deleted or could not be loaded.

is that cuz of the clams being heterotrophs?

10:51 PM

Oooooh like it steals all the calcium from the enviroment?

10:54 PM

Do you know much on the topic of kelp farming?

10:55 PM

Yeah i want to research it more as well

10:55 PM

Algae is such an amazing thing

10:56 PM

And not that its like the best source to get it from but its crazy that from (i dont think its all but at least a few) seaweeds you can get a vegan source of B12 naturally, not like a fortified product or whatever

10:57 PM

But it seems like thats a relatively unexplored topic, so i wonder if like thats bc its just taking B12 from animal excretions in the water or if its actually synthesizing it itself

10:58 PM

Oooooh thats possible too

10:59 PM

Gosh i cant wait to move to the ocean and just eat seaweed

returning the shells to the ocean would negate-ish the impact, but ALSO the removal of CO2 by the plants, especially at a local level would remove carbonic acid so stuff gets c o m p l e x LCA wise (edited)

I 100% agree the shelfish would be cause more acidity

11:13 PM

but the huge ammount of kelp making it probably very low local c02 (MAY i need to grab my g r a p h i n g c a l c u l a t o r or something) leading to less carbonic acid

11:13 PM

Also you could probably find a "safe margin"

11:13 PM

not doing factory farming at all costs, moreso using them as a biofilter

11:16 PM

i agree, which is why the "return" aspect would be needed

11:17 PM

complex mush->(co2 / hydrocarbons + energy out)->mineral filled ash/slag

11:17 PM

then take that mineral powder, dilute and reintroduce (edited)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunicate#Other_uses

Tunicate

A tunicate is a marine invertebrate animal, a member of the subphylum Tunicata . It is part of the Chordata, a phylum which includes all animals with dorsal nerve cords and notochords (including vertebrates). The subphylum was at one time called Urochordata, and the term urochordates is still sometimes used for these animals. They are the only c...

8:16 PM

Do you guys think the thing described in this section would have the same side effects as large scale shellfish farming or would it actually be a good thing to look into?

i'll look into it

9:31 PM

they look like something straight out of subnautica lol

9:31 PM

(have any of you played that game btw? It's great outside of the end needing some polish i guess)

I want to play it but the gaming/entertainment budget says otherwise

11:16 PM

Not to mention t i m e

y u p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYPfkd9DX9w

Greenspring Farms

Welcome to Greenspring Farms!

1

https://wiki.oceanbuilders.com/books/open-source-projects

2

That's quite a list

1

5:02 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_chemistry

Organic chemistry

Organic chemistry is a branch of chemistry that studies the structure, properties and reactions of organic compounds, which contain carbon in covalent bonding. Study of structure determines their structural formula. Study of properties includes physical and chemical properties, and evaluation of chemical reactivity to understand their behavior. ...

Some physics stuff in there too

11:07 PM

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reticulated_foam)

Reticulated foam

Reticulated foam is a very porous, low density solid foam. 'Reticulated' means like a net. Reticulated foams are extremely open foams i.e. there are few, if any, intact bubbles or cell windows. In contrast, the foam formed by soap bubbles is composed solely of intact (fully enclosed) bubbles. In a reticulated foam only the lineal boundaries wher...

11:08 PM

I am really enjoying the geometry of the Weaire-Phelan structure

Wesxdz

I am really enjoying the geometry of the Weaire-Phelan structure

“the most representative shape is a polyhedron with 13 faces” ‼️

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pL9Owk-_he4

Sofar

Spotter Buoy Integrates RBR or any Sensor Payload

12:31 AM

I think this is by the group that was an offshoot of OS-ROV or whatever it was

12:31 AM

either way neat presentation on sensor payloads + platforms and whatnot

12:34 AM

https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/27/sofar-ocean-technologies/

Josh Constine

Ocean drone startup merger spawns Sofar, the DJI of the sea – TechC...

What lies beneath the murky depths? SolarCity co-founder Peter Rive wants to help you and the scientific community find out. He’s just led a $7 million Series A for Sofar Ocean Technologies, a new startup formed from a merger he orchestrated between underwater drone maker OpenROV and sea sens…

12:36 AM

part of me wants to ask a question on Open Sourcing stuff in the empty comments section, but i will save that until i have thought it through, don't want to seem obnoxious and whatnot

~32:30 has a neat project for crowd + sensor based monitoring of coral reefs!

12:05 PM

Since the OSE Aquaponics workshop will start soon, just thought I would share a few pages from a nice book that shows an implementation for a tiny house. It's in German, sorry, but I hope the pictures speak for themselves... Book (in German): https://verlagderideen.de/produkt/ownhome/ BTW, the book was funded via crowdfunding.

ownhome – Verlag der Ideen

In unserer Konsumgesellschaft leben wir auf Kosten der Umwelt und der Menschen in weniger wohlhabenden Ländern. Ein Ungleichgewicht, das sich in Form von Klimawandel, Umweltverschmutzung und Flucht vor Armut und Krieg immer mehr rächt. Mit dem ownhome hat Klemens Jakob eine Basis für eine Lebensweise entwickelt, die unsere Gesellschaft von innen...

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https://www.researchgate.net/publication/263580325_Field_scale_evaluation_of_seaweed_aquaculture_as_a_nutrient_bioextraction_strategy_in_Long_Island_Sound_and_the_Bronx_River_Estuary

hkienle

Since the OSE Aquaponics workshop will start soon, just thought I would share a few pages from a nice book that shows an implementation for a tiny house. It's in German, sorry, but I hope the pictures speak for themselves... Book (in German): https://verlagderideen.de/produkt/ownhome/ BTW, the book was funded via crowdfunding.

I bought this book, thank you.

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Deleted User

Click to see attachment 🖼️

Neat Diagram! Did you make it, or where was it from? Is there a z o o m e d o u t v e r s i o n ?

Original message was deleted or could not be loaded.

Heat exchangers too! That was really intriguing me home plumbing wise

11:39 PM

Also i was thinking (granted all this costs real money in more pipes/complexity…buiuut) have a “priming line” that feeds the hot water back into the tank until the line is hot where it connects to the tap

11:40 PM

I’ll just be sitting there sometimes and be like “oooooh dear this is wasting water, but also it isn’t hot yet aaaaaah”

11:40 PM

Granted some would just go the route of Point of Use Instant Hot Water Heaters, but i want that waste heat collection + solar thermal tank

I’ve looked into those a bit, I don’t quite know how I feel about them. They have a bit more variables (I don’t know the specifics on Electrode / Membrane (if even used), but those are a major issue with Fuel Cells) and points of failure (due to biofouling, but again this isn’t backed by much data, so if you know a bunch on these please tell me!) compared to anaerobic digesters which are basically glorified murky ponds

12:07 AM

Also granted this is just me being a #bio-petrochemistry nerd, but having Methane (and maybe a little other stuff, as well as an easy way to get Sulfuric Acid/Sulfur) would be very useful for synthesis (as well as storage, steel or CF tanks are cheaper/simpler than batteries to an extent, and scale well)

@Eric Lotze has reached level 40. GG!

although efficiency (both in thermal and in costs) bits would be interesting to run.

12:09 AM

Also unless you plan on using it as is, the Biogas does need some rather significant “upgrading” (or at best a scrubber) to be able to be used like “Natural Gas” so that is a variable that would also be avoided with MFCs

12:09 AM

You may be able to have both too! A MFC with an Anaerobic Digester “afterburner”

12:10 AM

On the note of this: https://discord.com/channels/700486873272811562/862782116098080829/1054896260701769838 Have you done any more looking into the Azolla-Ponics kind of stuff?

12:12 AM

Could MFCs scale down really well too?

12:13 AM

Like Fish Tank/Porta-Potty/(Very-) Tiny House level WWT Energy

So I've been working my butt off the last few months setting up anchors for growing bull kelp. Fingers crossed we can get something to grow this spring/sunmer

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1:34 AM

We are repurposing a bunch of giant concrete blocks. Here is us filling recycled barrels and bags up with air underwater to lift up the block... then I've been using my little inflatable and outboard to tow them into position

1:36 AM

We were going to try using the traffic cones underwater to deter the kelp crabs from climbing up the lines. Sort of like those guards you put around bird feeder posts to stop squirrels.

1:42 AM

To collect starts we put several hundred feet of hemp rope under several naturally occurring kelp forests elsewhere in the state. Even wrapped some sori around it. Fingers crossed some new growth will decide to attach to the rope which we will then transport to our new location. (edited)

Naturally occurring kelp forests having been slowly dying off in our local waters and it is unclear why. I wonder if we could design some diy logging devices to track temperature/ph/light/turbidity/current/etc over the course of the summer. Curious if there are specific periods when our kelp growth rates lag behind growth rates of kelp elsewhere if it correlates to specific water quality conditions.

1:53 AM

The only differences I can think of between the areas where kelp still grows and where it has been dying off is the later are in more inland waterways (bigger temperature swings, climate change related heat waves?) and also these areas are closer to large human populations (pollutants from runoff, sewage treatment discharge, fertilizer runoff?).

1:55 AM

I wish I could measure potential pollutants but there are so many hundreds of common man-made things that end up in the ocean and not sure how to measure any of them with low budget Arduino-based sensors. (edited)

1:56 AM

I wonder if laser induced fluorescence spectroscopy could pick up on anything of relevance.

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I wonder if we could design some diy logging devices to track temperature/ph/light/turbidity/current/etc over the course of the summer.

- that's possible, I started porting some statistic algos to Atmel & Co. Logging/Readout preferably over Wifi tho. I am afraid that the conditions require good sealing. I'd ask some experts ... Perhaps there's a Discord server

Just realized that Atmel & friends may lack memory and processing power | ESP could do. Strings and buffers won't perform well on a controller meant for I/O though. Fun fact, they couldn't even agree on std::*

for the interested reader, a piece of bit blunt bigotry, https://yts.do/movie/the-subtle-art-of-not-giving-a-fck-2023/

The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck (2023) YIFY - Download Movie To...

The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck (2023) YTS Movie Torrent:

8:40 PM

aka ' No Panik on the Titanik'

Cmjstealth

So I've been working my butt off the last few months setting up anchors for growing bull kelp. Fingers crossed we can get something to grow this spring/sunmer

*OH MY GOODNESS YOU ARE DOING IN-PERSON STUFF, ABSOLUTE LEGEND *

8:13 PM

I can now live vicariously through you

1

Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 4/27/2023 8:15 PM

Cmjstealth

Naturally occurring kelp forests having been slowly dying off in our local waters and it is unclear why. I wonder if we could design some diy logging devices to track temperature/ph/light/turbidity/current/etc over the course of the summer. Curious if there are specific periods when our kelp growth rates lag behind growth rates of kelp elsewhere if it correlates to specific water quality conditions.

Just curious so if i can help in person so i could help, but what region are you in? (I'm in Florida, so guessing no, but i have barely any knowledge on Florida's aquatic ecosystems short of "cool reefs by the keys, and mangrove swamps are awesome" lol)

Eric Lotze

Just curious so if i can help in person so i could help, but what region are you in? (I'm in Florida, so guessing no, but i have barely any knowledge on Florida's aquatic ecosystems short of "cool reefs by the keys, and mangrove swamps are awesome" lol)

I'm in Washington state so as far away from Florida in the contiguous states as possible lol

Cmjstealth

I'm in Washington state so as far away from Florida in the contiguous states as possible lol

Lol makes sense, i figured since iirc most kelp forests are west coast

@Eric Lotze I am thinking about visiting Florida later this year though if you happen to be in the south Florida area (keys, everglades, etc). Could meet up to have a beer, spear some invasive lionfish, whatever. If you are anywhere near that area of course

Cmjstealth

To collect starts we put several hundred feet of hemp rope under several naturally occurring kelp forests elsewhere in the state. Even wrapped some sori around it. Fingers crossed some new growth will decide to attach to the rope which we will then transport to our new location. (edited)

Update: This week went out to recover the kelp line that I mentioned setting in Jan. There are little Kelp sprouts! Holy crap it actually worked! We successfully removed the collection line and moved it to the new location (edited)

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I'm in North Florida, but should have plenty of transport ability soon (getting a used car post the old one crapping out), and as long as it fits in my schedule i'd be down 100% I've been down to the keys-ish area once, and snorkeling was SOOOOO fun (i have no scuba gear/qual yet, but one can do a hell of a lot with some fins, a competitive swimmer "inline style" snorkel and some good mirrored goggles! Also kayaking in the mangroves is great fun short of the occasional alligator / dodging roots but yeah

10:05 PM

My only concern is that Desantis's Administration has been going off the deep end, so i am doing everything in my power to get out, although that is probably just paranoia due to me being me and stuff, also South Florida is way more chill ( I swear it's the Beaches + Café Cubano Per Capita that is Responsible

10:06 PM

Also i don't know if i made a wiki page on Lionfish yet, but i was geeking out on all that

10:06 PM

Mainly the whole "how to get them" and "how to butcher them" aspects

10:06 PM

but also i want to make a Terminator Submarine for them

10:06 PM

24/7 Lionfish Hunting Robot!

10:08 PM

Also i guess spear guns aren't required; there is this goofy method that lowkey looks like people picking up litter wait let me grab a video

10:09 PM

https://youtu.be/FQXplP4AyRQ?t=10

Patrick Explores

60 Pounds of Invasive Lionfish on One Dive

10:09 PM

my only concern is sitting live in tube is like the near opposite of Ikejime so that may make them taste horrible

@Eric Lotze I've only explored the keys once but found there really isn't anywhere accessible from shore that is deep enough for scuba anyway. You need a boat to get a couple miles offshore for that. Assume you don't have access to one, right?

10:13 PM

I did find one "secret" site within kayak range of the highway that had enough structure and depth for some cool critters (fish, goliath groupers, sharks, rays, etc). Was just shallow enough I could freedive down with mask and fins. Infested with some lionfish. Curious to buy a cheap lionfish hand spear and see if I can remove them and have a nice dinner.

Cmjstealth

@Eric Lotze I've only explored the keys once but found there really isn't anywhere accessible from shore that is deep enough for scuba anyway. You need a boat to get a couple miles offshore for that. Assume you don't have access to one, right?

Not personally per-se, my parents have:

a small sailboat (like 20ft iirc, definitely not some i "gReW uP iN a LoG cAbIn" type thing a privilege to be able to have, but not some oceangoing superyacht. was like the price of a car when they got it and may be able to do small ocean trips, also 70's design so kind of falling apart, but still got some life in it

A Plastic "dingy" and a RHIB type thing (which was from his dad as a gift, but has been sitting in the Florida hot garage deflated for ages so may be dry rotted to hell and back)

I could probably not have access to the first, especially for such a giant trip, but the others maybe, but Definitely not something too worthwhile for dive support in the keys

10:28 PM

my carpool ride is here, so i have to log off this school library computer and go home, so will be switching over to mobile hopefully, but i got to go for now

https://www.nationalfisherman.com/west-coast-pacific/slinky-pots-and-ropeless-gear-next-angles-for-whale-avoidance

Slinky pots and ropeless gear: next angles for whale avoidance

With new regulations turning whale avoidance into a top priority in the Gulf of Maine and off California, front-line fishermen sat Friday for a panel discussion at Pacific Marine Expo on what the futu

8:53 PM

https://www.nationalfisherman.com/national-international/why-everything-you-ve-heard-about-ropeless-crab-fishing-gear-is-false

Why everything you’ve heard about ‘ropeless’ crab fishing gear is f...

Is the so-called “ropeless” fishing gear the silver bullet for solving the perceived problem of marine mammal interactions in California’s crab fisheries? Several profit-driven envir

8:53 PM

Some of those articles were b i a s e d, but yeah

8:53 PM

I heard about this “Ropeless Crab Fishing” / Lobster Traps etc on NPR a while back

8:54 PM

https://ropeless.org/background/

Background

8:55 PM

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/19/969559244/ropeless-lobster-fishing-is-good-news-for-endangered-whales

8:55 PM

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/21/969527300/ropeless-lobster-fishing-could-save-the-whales-could-it-kill-the-industry

Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 5/26/2023 3:40 AM

Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 5/26/2023 3:41 AM

Eric Lotze pinned a message to this channel. 5/26/2023 3:42 AM

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acssuschemeng.1c08313

1:00 AM

hello, quick question here

5:18 AM

just out of curiosity, per unit of land area what are the nutritional outputs of indoor aquaponic farms?

5:19 AM

obviously there's going to be a large degree of variance

5:19 AM

but when factoring in things like say, land area requirements of solar panels or etc, I'm curious what the final tally comes out to

5:20 AM

as well as whatever continuous inputs are required to maintain yield like fish feed or supplementary nutrients

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Aquaponic_Greenhouse

Aquaponic Greenhouse

5:21 AM

This is a good start on OSE's prior art

5:21 AM

https://wiki.opensourceecology.org/wiki/Farm_Yields_Per_Acre This one is also a great resource!

Farm Yields Per Acre

thanks

Roths

just out of curiosity, per unit of land area what are the nutritional outputs of indoor aquaponic farms?

Why go for indoor versus outdoor aquaponics farm?

year round production, fish can't live in frozen blocks of ice, etc

6:22 AM

you'd still want it to be a greenhouse structure of sorts at least

Roths

you'd still want it to be a greenhouse structure of sorts at least

Ah, sure. I guess I think of a greenhouse as semi-outdoors

Roths

you'd still want it to be a greenhouse structure of sorts at least

I'm working on a greenhouse design, btw. Will likely share here once it's ready

1

Roths

hello, quick question here

aquaponic and the like has been debunked numerous times due its inefficiency, and energy consumption, i think the hype was over a few years ago

5:07 PM

besides, how cruel, poor fishes

5:12 PM

what about you guys stop making new babies instead ? planet will be happy for sure

Guinea Pig

what about you guys stop making new babies instead ? planet will be happy for sure

Not a super constructive addition to the conversation there, friend.

Any data to back that up? Aquaponics is already proven tech?

I'd love those fishes could add something to the conversation, perhaps one day they can

7:06 PM

last tanks I've seen were so full of fishes, there was hardly any space between them (edited)

Guinea Pig

aquaponic and the like has been debunked numerous times due its inefficiency, and energy consumption, i think the hype was over a few years ago

Except for the chinampas in southern Mexico

interesting question again, after how many neurons human would recognize consciousness in animals, and does that go proportional with the space required ? to my recollection humans understand up to 50 neurons, thats the size of a fly - it never changed, and probably never will

(edited)

So what I'm hearing is aquaponics goes against veganism

besides, humanity came up with lots of 'proven' technology, most of it specialized in destruction, killing or poisoning, ...

303adastra

So what I'm hearing is aquaponics goes against veganism

I dont know, ask the fishes how they feel about

Guinea Pig

I dont know, ask the fishes how they feel about

Same goes for all the bacteria, fungi, protozoa, nematodes, and micro-arthropods that fertilized the soil of all the plants I ate, right?

see question above how many neurons/size it needs; would you it a dolphin ?

Guinea Pig

see question above how many neurons/size it needs; would you it a dolphin ?

I don't understand the question

again: after how many neurons human would recognize consciousness in animals, or start respecting it, and are there ethical policies to be applied ?

7:37 PM

in japan for instance, folks have friendships with fishes, not even bigger that sizes

Guinea Pig

in japan for instance, folks have friendships with fishes, not even bigger that sizes

Yes, they're called Koi. They keep them as pets. Aquaponics is literally harvesting Koi poop for use as plant fertilizer

ye, even cats have them as friends

Few updates on some of the projects mentioned earlier in this channel. Lionfish: https://discord.com/channels/700486873272811562/768588835931291689/1101237275389599926 @Eric Lotze A couple months after our chat I went back to the Florida Keys. Brought my inflatable kayak. Some wonderful people at the local nonprofit https://www.reef.org/ loaned me a lionfish spear and gave me some tips. They are an amazing resource for training and general advocacy for management and helping people harvest this invasive species. I planned a trip and paddled back out to the spot I mentioned but the wind had picked up and this time visibility was terrible. I did find several lionfish but since they also had only a few feet of visibility when they saw a human suddenly swim into their field of vision they became immediately startled and bolted. Spearing them felt basically impossible. A very different behavior compared to my prior trip when they could see me slowly approach they would just sit in place like the little ambush preditors they are. So the whole trip was technically a fail from a lionfish removal/harvest standpoint but an amazing learning experience for the future.

(edited)

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10:43 AM

I wonder if this is something a lionfish harvesting robot would or could take into account. Maybe it would have the same problem? Surely someone is dabbling with the invasive species removal robot idea. If not, and it is something someone was interested in exploring, Reef.org's lionfish team would be fantastic partners to work with fyi. They have expertise with the marine biology/ecology/behavior science but not necessarily folks with technical/robotics expertise. Not only potential to collaborate on design and testing but potentially could partner on fundraising or grants too? Just a thought (edited)

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Different topic: The kelp cultivation project (growing bull kelp to help restore an ecosystem that is now almost entirely gone in the central/south puget sound). I first mentioned here: https://discord.com/channels/700486873272811562/768588835931291689/1067239987587850363 (edited)

We successfully trialed three methods of planting: First... laying rope under a couple of the existing kelp forests that remain in our area over the winter. Once kelp settles and starts are growing on the rope we then packed it in coolers and moved it to our restoration location (see images in previous posts). Second, our project leader got space at a local aquarium and tried a documented technique of collecting and cleaning sori in a closed loop tank system. Rolls of twine are placed in the tank for the sporophytes to attach to. Monitor progress by microscope. Once established, the twine is then moved to our outplanting site and wrapped around our anchor ropes. I have a handbook I can share of the methodology specifics if anyone wants to replicate. Lastly we also rescued some kelp that was simply floating by after their holdfasts had broken and we simply tied them to our rope array lol. (edited)

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11:11 AM

All three methods worked! Although growing in the tank was dramatically more work (setup, environmental controls, grow lights at proper intensity, water flushes, etc) it was super targeted and precise. Only the target species of kelp ends up getting out planted vs the first approach which ended up transporting a few other hitchhikeer organisms from the donor environment (all from the same sub-basin though). (edited)

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Kelp grew awesome for several months, almost made it to the surface, and then disaster. Of the bureaucracy kind, however

‍

. We had the go ahead from every regulatory agency and manager we could think of (DNR, state fish and wildlife, local state park management, local kelp restoration org, etc). Turns out there was some additional bureaucrat that works for the state park agency (on the other side of the state) with some job role related to conservation projects? Even the local state park managers we worked with didn't know she existed. Anyway when we heard about her and innocently started telling her about the awesome work we were doing she got upset (i think) that this project happened without her involvement. We seemed to have followed all the right protocols as far as we can tell but we think because she hadn't been included from the beginning she demanded all work stop, all the plants be destroyed, and everything removed. (edited)

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@Cmjstealth has reached level 9. GG!

I can only think she had perhaps felt threatened? Made some comment about what if the local tribes objected to the project? She was 100% unwilling to collaborate with us to work through any concerns or reach out to any potential stakeholders (including tribal partners) that might have an objection. Her argument seemed simply that there could be the potential for someone, somewhere, to have an issue with something... even if she didn't know what. She was unwilling to learn anything about the project plan, methodologies used, rigorous documentation, or work performed with the council of experts in the field. It was also obvious that she was pretty clueless about kelp restoration, had zero experience, and wasn't part of any of the local scientific and restoration workgroups. It was a truly awful gut punch to all of us that worked so hard on this especially since it seems like she was shutting us down for political rather than any conservation or management reasons.

️. (edited)

So... TLDR summary.... government bureaucracy/politics killed an otherwise successful restoration of a critically endangered habitat

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Thanks for sharing; indeed a sad story - perhaps you can make a write up about the up-sides ?

Cmjstealth

I can only think she had perhaps felt threatened? Made some comment about what if the local tribes objected to the project? She was 100% unwilling to collaborate with us to work through any concerns or reach out to any potential stakeholders (including tribal partners) that might have an objection. Her argument seemed simply that there could be the potential for someone, somewhere, to have an issue with something... even if she didn't know what. She was unwilling to learn anything about the project plan, methodologies used, rigorous documentation, or work performed with the council of experts in the field. It was also obvious that she was pretty clueless about kelp restoration, had zero experience, and wasn't part of any of the local scientific and restoration workgroups. It was a truly awful gut punch to all of us that worked so hard on this especially since it seems like she was shutting us down for political rather than any conservation or management reasons.

️. (edited)

what the absolute fuck especially not just stopping but requiring the work be destroyed?!?

2:58 AM

That's absolutely horrible though!

3:00 AM

Good thing you got a working protocol going and documentation and all that. I'm sure @glean would love to see all that and either he and/or someone on Scihouse inc could help network/plot maybe

Cmjstealth

I wonder if this is something a lionfish harvesting robot would or could take into account. Maybe it would have the same problem? Surely someone is dabbling with the invasive species removal robot idea. If not, and it is something someone was interested in exploring, Reef.org's lionfish team would be fantastic partners to work with fyi. They have expertise with the marine biology/ecology/behavior science but not necessarily folks with technical/robotics expertise. Not only potential to collaborate on design and testing but potentially could partner on fundraising or grants too? Just a thought (edited)

i forget if i rambled about it on here before, but i do legit want to make some sort of Invasive Species Terminator-Sub

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Cmjstealth

So... TLDR summary.... government bureaucracy/politics killed an otherwise successful restoration of a critically endangered habitat

Hello. I would like to maybe discuss more about opening up your work and help re build and maybe find some sneaky loopholes so this doesn't happen again. (edited)

glean

Hello. I would like to maybe discuss more about opening up your work and help re build and maybe find some sneaky loopholes so this doesn't happen again. (edited)

My friend Rhoda wants to try again someday. There are a bunch of others like myself willing to help but the effort probably needs a project manager/lead/whatever to coordinate and work with the various regulatory, permitting, and stakeholder agencies. Rhoda is amazing and motivated but I think would love and benefit from help with this. (edited)

1:26 AM

I already have too many projects to play this role in the immediate future but would be willing to contribute as a supporting volunteer. (edited)

Right now I'm focused on trying to build/test an open source subsurface monitoring sensor to log various oceanographic/water quality data (tidal current, temperature, salinity, light, etc).

2:01 AM

It does indirectly relate to floating kelp recovery though as it may help with modeling kelp habitat suitability. Water temperature is a massive factor related to the decline

2:04 AM

If anyone has experience with something similar let me know.

Cmjstealth

Right now I'm focused on trying to build/test an open source subsurface monitoring sensor to log various oceanographic/water quality data (tidal current, temperature, salinity, light, etc).

lovely, I'd be interested, need a universal approach to monitor data, with WIFI/LO-RA read out, as well the back-end; modbus-tcp for some reason turned out to slow, after 5+ devices; then, btw. still not convinced about ESP and the like;

8:55 AM

here a pretty decent low-level lib : https://github.com/jspark311/CppPotpourri

And here code for nano drones, meshing out terrains : https://github.com/orgs/ETH-PBL/repositories - they have basics for ultra small devices (wearable), air-sensors on legs come to mind

ETH-PBL

ETH-PBL has 26 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

Eric Lotze

what the absolute fuck especially not just stopping but requiring the work be destroyed?!?

“If I can’t get credit for creating it; I must destroy it” <-Common attitude in government/federal contractor politics

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https://youtu.be/4dzVt2EdI50?si=_01m0Hq3pcRMqh4h

CBS 8 San Diego

San Diego Bay showing signs of improvement after reef balls installed

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